Contradiction of political ideology cost us elections.
Posted by: Chance Haywood in Untagged on
Nov 10, 2008
When did we go from being the party that wanted to protect liberty and freedom to the party that is all about supporting government intrusions. It is this loss of focus in your platform, and our actions, that has cost us in the last few elections. Liberty is important to everyone regardless of ethnicity or income so why aren't we standing up for it more often?
If you doubt how far we've strayed from Taft and Goldwater consider this contradiction in our platform. Same sex marriage bans. The party as repeatedly supported laws banning same sex marriages.
How does two men, or two women, being married infringe on your freedom or liberty?
It doesn't. Yet the party that has repeatedly claimed for decades we want to limit government involvement in our lives we recently began proudly proclaiming we want it to intrude here. That isn't the only contradiction in our platform but I'll leave those for another day.
So my fellow elephants are we going to be the party that protects the constitution, liberty, freedom and support limited government or not?
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written by Jay Golub , November 11, 2008
Here, here....
Although fighting for "liberty" doesn't get as many votes as the welfare state issues of the Left, if done on a longterm basis it will turn the tide for the GOP and give us a solid base of support to go out and fight on particular local issues to win elections...
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written by alice Lemos , November 11, 2008
the bills banning gay marriage won - even in California - with black voter support! Sorry: marriage is between a man and a woman.
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written by Jay Golub , November 11, 2008
that proves my point, Alibaba. The numerous measures around the country approved the social agenda you so strongly support. Yet, McCain and Congressional GOPer's got clobbered.
The point is that those issues are losers in federal elections and will be from this point forward more than ever before.
tnks for pointing that out to all of us...
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written by alice Lemos , November 11, 2008
is not a social conservative and did not speak of this ballot measures. Thanks for not bothering to read - once again. BTW: try to marginalize social conservative and you will be able to hold your "meetings" in a phone booth. The gay marriage issue was a BIG, BIG WINNER in the states where it was a referendum.
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written by Jay Golub , November 11, 2008
"Black voters" supported the gay marriage ban? If so, then why didn't they vote for the party of "social conservatism." McCain wasn't the only candidate running for federal office.
EVERY congressional seat was up for re-election, with almost all of the GOP contenders being significantly more in support of gay marriage bans than thier opponents. Why didn't they win, Alibaba????
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written by alice Lemos , November 11, 2008
people like you, Jay - you really need help. You did nothing to help the GOP - nothing - but you attack people who did. Unbelievable!
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written by Jay Golub , November 11, 2008
nice answer to the question i posed, Alibaba.
If the issue of gay marriage is so valuable and supported, why didn't it translate to GOP victories ANYWHERE???!
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written by Chance Haywood , November 11, 2008
How does two men, or two women, being married infringe on your freedom, liberty or life?
I always love how the "social conservatives" refuse to answer that question.
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written by alice Lemos , November 11, 2008
force religious institutions to comply and perform the weddings. Not to mention the confusion tha this would cause if a man marries a man than goes to another state and marries a woman! how about polygamy? child marriages? I love how "social liberals" never answer these questions. You and Jay should go to Las Vegas and get married by Elvis!
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written by Jay Golub , November 11, 2008
polygamy???
I am married in NY state. If i go to marry someone in another state, I would be a polygamist. where is the confusion??? It's polygamy either way - gay or straight.
Are you assuming that gays want to be polygamists???
Child marriages??? What does that have to do with anything?
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written by Chance Haywood , November 11, 2008
Where in my posts do I ever suggested that any church be forced to perform a ceremony between same sex couples? Nothing like muddling the waters on an issue needlessly. But since you can actually answer the simple of questions about liberty it doesn't surprise me you would try to do that.
Any church/pastor who doesn't want to conduct the ceremony wouldn't be forced to because they have the freedom to make that choice not to. The point is the state shouldn't deny someone the privilege it grants others simply because of a religious ideology.
Lest you forget this is the party that supported the liberty of blacks and women when when the other side of the political spectrum thought is was just fine to deny them rights and privileges others freely enjoyed.
As for polygamy I've never entirely understood the objection to this as long as the person who is married to multiple partners isn't being deceptive or fraudulent in their behavior. Sure for most of us this isn't a lifestyle we would care to live but like with my previous question what about polygamy infringes on your life, liberty or freedom?
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written by Jay Golub , November 11, 2008
It should be noted regarding the history of the GOP in fighting for individual liberty for Black people, that many in the church favored the continuation of slavery. Some of slavery's most ardent supporters were from the Church.
Yet, I certainly don't blame "religion" for slavery.
Freedom and liberty should be the guiding force for the Grand Ol' Party - that should include freedom from taxation, government oppression as well as pure individual freedoms, such as the right of self-determination.
BTW chance, that line about "not understanding the objection" to polygamy will certainly elicit a wonderful reaction from Alibaba...
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written by Chance Haywood , November 11, 2008
Oh nice. I can hardly wait to read it.
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written by alice Lemos , November 12, 2008
so obtuse and obnoxious that you and your new friend really should go to Las Vegas and get married in a lovely chapel with the Elvis imipersonator conductingthe ceremony. You can have multiple paratners with Chancehaywood who is off the deep end. Enjoy!
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written by Chance Haywood , November 12, 2008
Seriously you can't answer the question? How does a marriage between two men, or two women, infringe upon your freedom, liberty or life?
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written by Jay Golub , November 12, 2008
she doesn't care about "liberty." She, like many of those on her side, are singlemindedly focused on the defense of the fetus.
Although i think her cause is valid, he methods and reasoning are completely flawed.
This is why people like her need to allow the GOP to become the party of liberty again. If that occurs, Republicans could start to win again...
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written by Chance Haywood , November 12, 2008
email me I need some background info from someone who might a better knowledge of the area.
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written by alice Lemos , November 13, 2008
JAY. Are you sure you aren't a Democrat? You sure talk like one! Tne endorsement of Malcolm Smith is proof positive.
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written by Chance Haywood , November 13, 2008
How about you answer the question I put to you instead of posting personal attacks in your replies.
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written by alice Lemos , November 13, 2008
question? I read a lot of silliness and perversion vis a vis polygamay.
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written by Chance Haywood , November 13, 2008
Obviously you are just a troll because the question is so simple even a middle school student could have answered it. From this point I'll just avoid interacting with you because you obviously don't want to have a discussion about anything of substance.
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